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I love this game :)

Ues, but not everthing black and white, something is gray :)

Miranda

I agree totally, Toby. I work in theater, and we do productions in english that are translated from many different languages. If an american cast are performing a russian play, or a polish play, they often keep the original names from the source language. But they would NEVER use the russian or polish pronunciations. In the same way that russians or poles would never use english pronunciation when they are performing translations of english language plays. No one ever questions this in theater, so I'm surprised that such a big deal was made of this in a culinary situation. There's so much cultural crossovers in both art forms, you just have to accept it and not be so sensitive. Languages can hold their own, and it insults another culture's language to suggest otherwise.

You say tomato...
I really don't care about pronunciations anymore. I've given up on people mispronouncing things, unless they insist that their way is indeed the 'correct' way to say it. Then, i have to admit, i get ticked off. But there are so many cultures and borrowed words that its impossible for everyone to get everything right all the time. I don't even correct people that say my name wrong anymore. Of course f your pronunciations sounds like a bad/embarrassing word in the same language you should probably make an effort to say it right though..

Heh. Toby, I wonder if anyone here read your 'Spectator' column on this?! 8-). Sorry, I meant 'columm'...

I am a Hispanic from California and grew up in a household where both English and Spanish were spoken on a regular basis. I agree 100% with Toby. If the word is not native to your tongue one should pronounce as best as they see fit. I am not offended when a person who has English as a first language mispronounces a Spanish word because it is being said in English! The same goes for a native Spanish speaker mispronouncing an English word while speaking Spanish. Toby's imperialist notion is right on the mark as well.

Well, one reason that Americans often preserve the Spanish (Mexican Spanish for the most part) pronounciations, is that in a large number of states Spanish has been continually spoken for two-hundred years longer than English.

In my youth, It drove me crazy when my "mum" mispronounced Tai Kwon Do (Ty Con Doo). Now I just laugh at *it like this while wishing I could still get my foot above knee level. I just read one of your "real" reviews for the first time and really enjoyed the wit. Glad to see you on TC, wish you were on every episode.

Haven't you ever heard of Spanglish????? Here, in the US, we pronounce many words differently than you Brits. So what's the big hoo haa? Why do you care how we say paella? Geeze, last time I went to Miami I spoke more Spanish than English. Spanish pronunciations are as common and as American as apple pie.

Hi there!

I'm not actually spanish, I'm portuguese, but we have the same background and I can safely say that the 2 L are almost impossible to pronounce to anglosaxons... :)

Really, it's difficult because you don't have in your language... Anyway, that really doesn't seem very important so, no worries!

And please excuse my poor english, but it's my second language and, living in Lisbon, I don't get the chance to speak english that often.:)

Best regards,

Rita

I once sat through a English poetry course, listening to an American professor pronounce Lord Byron's Don Juan as Donn JOO-Ann. I suppose that's the way Byron (and Toby), being English, would have pronounced it, but the sound of it was unbearable to this listener. Still is.

Except that earlier in the season they made a point of showing the contestants complain about how they couldn't pronounce the name "Preeti" -- which isn't even that hard of a name to get right.

Maybe it's not a big deal to mispronounce foods (Red Lobster used to run a commercial where they deliberately pointed out the Americanized pronunciation of shrimp scampi--as if a long "a" is too difficult for us yanks), but when it comes to names, I have much less patience. Especially when people resist learning how to pronounce non-English names (like "Preeti")--then I wonder if there's some xenophobia in play.

Maybe it's because I've been surrounded by bilingual folks for most of my adult life, but it doesn't strike me at all odd to hear people jump from an American accent to Spanish, Polish, or Japanese within the same sentence as needed. But more interestingly, I hear more and more people using "authentic" pronunciation for terms that we've borrowed from other languages (my 5 year old nephew already pronounces karate correctly), so I think we're getting better at being respectful to the cultures we've borrowed from.

I think Mexico and Paris are the English equivalents of the original names of these places, just like Germany is to Deutschland and Spain to España, etc. That's why the pronunciations in English are different from those in their native languages. Paella, on the other hand, remains a Spanish word.

It is not uncommon for foreign words that are adopted into the English dictionary/usage to retain their original pronunciation. It is often hard to perfectly mimic the way native speakers say them but the idea is to be close as possible.

There's nothing offensive about saying paella any way you want, really--I get a bit tired of folks who make a modest little goof acting like the political correctness squad is coming after them. It's just that, you know, you want people to know what it is that you're talking about. If Toby wants to tell me that he wouldn't raise an eyebrow as a server in a mid-market English restaurant when a diner said, "I would like the rose-bif with some moo-tard", well, ok. Just like I might say "come again" if I were a server and someone asked for a glass of pin-oat nore. Not because of snobbery, but because I'm not sure what the hell it is that the guy wants. At some point, you have to be understood. Spanish servers understand an English person ordering pee-el-a because they get a lot of English diners. But a decent number of food items are pronounced by the norms of one language just so we're all clear what it is that we're ordering or eating.

Ha! I was a bit ticked when I watched the show and heard you get huffy about your mispronunciation.

But this blog post is very funny... I get where you're coming from. And for the record, I think it's hilarious how the English purposely mispronounce French words... An American friend of mine went 5 rounds with her English boyfriend over the correct way to say "fillet" of fish. Good stuff.

Interesting. I am not a priviledged white person yet I DO try to prounounce things the correct way if I can. If I mispronounce something and am corrected I make an effort to pronounce it correctly in the future. Maybe I just feel guilty because I grew up as a lower-middle class white Polish/Italian American who is used to hearing pierogies and ricotta misprounounced. @@

Just a quick question,......how do youpronounce Tortilla??

Uh, Toby:

Now that you've gotten the paella argument out of your system, what did you think of the challenge that you judged? (Or were still harping of the differences of American pronounciation of Eurowords with Tom and company?)

So loved this post - as I always your sharp comments Toby!
If you are not speaking in Spanish, why bothering pronouncing "paella" right? Every English speaker would get your "pi-el-a" perfectly fine and, to me, the pronounciation corrections can only mean two things: imperialism complex or snobbery (or these two for the hypocrites...). Not to mention that in each Spanish region and Latin-American country you will get a different pronounciation of the double l's - would anyone correct an Argentinian saying "pa-e-sha"?

As I recall, the issue wasn't that you pronounced paella "pie-ell-a" rather than "pie-ay-ya," it's that you took it upon yourself to criticize those who use the Spanish pronunciation. That's what invited Michelle Bernstein's response. If you'd simply continued to say "pie-ell-a" without making a comment about those who pronounce it otherwise, she'd probably have said nothing.

You, Toby, opened that whole can of worms.

I should also add that I've very much enjoyed you on the show. Are you are beloved Gail? No. But I've enjoyed your input. Haven't always agreed with it, but appreciated it.

Excellent commentary, Toby.

stupendous Toby...bravo.

eh, btw; your perceptions on the losing dishes? When the editor of Food and Wine magazine says one in particular tastes like catfood...well..I had that ticket punched. Surprised to see Tom disagree, although I have seen him swim against conventional thought at judges table and as a hands-on chef I respect his opinion.

I also find it quite amusing ( and I suspect you do as well) the semi-heated discussion of pronunciation on a board consisting of text messages where you cannot hear the different perspectives. Again, amusing, maybe it's just me.

And for the person who mentioned a preference for certain comedy stylings, let us not forget the genre of "toilet humour". A base and degrading topic handled subtlety rather well by British and Irish (redundant?) comedians over the years yet in the present age seen in it's most disgusting forms in the profane and vile dialect of certain comedians, to the added detriment of culture in America. For shame.

Toodles,

CT

Dude, your armpit hair comment was the best part of this week's show. I had to pause the show because we were laughing so hard. Keep up the good work.

You pronounced mole "mo-lay" rather than "mole" rhymes with toll. So why not pronounce paella correctly?

Oh tomayto tomahto. Who cares? I thought this was supposed to be a blog about the show.

Oh tomayto tomahto. Who cares? I thought this was supposed to be a blog about the show.

Hey, Toby:

One of the main reasons I really enjoy you on TC is your mastery of the English language. I am an English teacher. Your well-placed barbs are truly masterful. And, yes, I am annoyed when an educated person mispronounces vocabulary that is in their own area of expertise. It is true that many other cultures are more respectful of inperfection than Americans are--they save their laughing for behind our backs. Please pronounce paella correctly and roll your eyes when chefs mispronounce "mascarpone",
Presidents mispronounce "nuclear," and ordinary people say, "All the sudden," instead of "all of a sudden." One of the reasons President Obama is so admired is his command of the language. George Bush was just a big goof, and this was reflected in his speech. Don't make excuses.

I don't think anyone came down nearly on as hard on old GW Bush who couldn't pronounce "nuclear"! Now we've got a whole nation who can't pronounce it. So who cares about paella??? I think one is um...a little more important.

Pi-el-a isn't even how one would pronounce the word were it English. Why pronounce the first syllable as Spanish and the rest of the word as English? Shouldn't it be pay-la? Just say you're going to pronounce words however the heck you want and leave it at that. And how Imperialist is it to spend "a lot of time in Spain" and not learn to speak a bit of Spanish?

You're the one that brought it up??

I know what you mean. I can't stand all the hypocritical imperialist swine who call their fill-ett mig-nun "fillay minyon". "Pronouncing something correctly" is so bourgeois!

Too funny and such a great point of view. It's lovely to hear from Toby Young.

Let's get one thing straight. I'm am so liberal that if you put me in a room with Glenn Beck for 5 minutes, I guarantee he would self-combust. When I order a foreign food my motivation for authentic pronuncitation has nothing to do with political correctness or respecting someone else's culture. I have to admit that my ego is not quite as robust as yours. I just don't like getting it wrong. The first time I ordered something that contained jicama. I pronounced it with a "j" sound and I rhymed it with "yo mamma". The waiter (a white kid), rather condescendingly, corrected me. No biggie, but I did file away the proper pronunciation for later use.

I suppose I should just get over myself. The next time I'm at my aunt's house and I ask her to pass me the pierogie, I should pronounce it "Pie" (as in Apple) rogi...just so I won't sound politically correct or pretentious. Oh....wait a minute. Then I'll be pretending to be ignorant in order to make a statement to other's,....but isn't that just another pretense. Wow...this can go on for hours. Thanks Toby.

People are too sensitive. I think you are funny, Toby. Mispronounce away.

I honestly think it isn't a matter of the right and wrong way to say paella, but that it is really dependent on what you were first taught as a child (not to say there aren't those who have an overabundant love for other cultures and become overly immersed). Growing up on the west coast of the U.S., many of the Spanish terms such as quesadilla, torta, and even paella are and have always been pronounced with the traditional Spanish accents. As such, those pronunciations stuck.

For myself, it FEELS wrong to say these words in the Anglo manner because it wasn't how I was taught to pronounce them. Do I fault someone else for not pronouncing the words "correctly?" No. All I ask in return is to not be responded with "I don't know why you say it 'pi-el-a' instead of 'pi-ay-a.'" Just ask me why I pronounce it that way, and I'll be more than happy to tell you, and that way we both can leave the correcting to the school teachers.

Toby,

I get your point about mispronunciation of foreign words, and I resisted as well for a while here in Texas where half the dialogue is no longer English, but, having said that, I don't care if you're in France in Marseilles, in Spain having paella, or in Mexico having Pollo, or in Texas drinking Llano wine...the l's are never pronounced...so...it is what it is...but not being the imperialist upper middle class snob you generalized and stereotyped us folks as, I merely try to get it right to show some level of respect, to not offend, and, sometimes, to appease the speaker or culture of the speaker. I don't like my language butchered by people that know better...I think I despite "fixin to" and "nothing" instead of "anything" more than any mispronounced country or food for that matter...and I appreciate the same in return. I know the pronunciation of most large cities in other countries and use their terms when visiting and/or eating their regional cuisines wherever I may be.

Your armpit reference, while some thought was funny, I'm sure pissed off several people in France. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, maybe, sometimes it shouldn't be shared on TV.

I think for Michelle Bernstein to pronounce it "pa-e-ya" the way she does is fair, since she is Latina.

I am Italian-American. I pronounce many foods with an Italian-American (not so much an Italian) accent. I was raised by an immigrant. That's how I grew up pronouncing those words as a result. It's not about imperialism or being pc for me. Heck, my family was dirt poor in Italy and they were dirt poor here, so it wasn't upper middle class either. It's how I learned to say "escarole" (schke-dahl) and "mozzarella" (mootz-uh-rell) and "biscotti" (pish-cotti) and "capacola" (sp?) (gabba-gaul) and it's how I still say them. It's not pretentious. It would just sound wrong to me to say it another way.

Maybe that's where Michelle is coming from. I don't know her obviously. So maybe not.

But, it's not a big deal either way, I don't think. The whole exchange was weird, though. I didn't think you were wrong in how you said it.

It always sounds pretentious to me when Americans pronounce foreign words with a foreign accent. Croissant without the 't', Paree, Mexhico, crepps. Silly. Snobbish. (Worse yet are the loonies that pronounce Target 'tar-jay')

Ashes, how do you think the English word for Rome came about? It didn't just magically appear. It comes from the root, Roma. English is a living language that takes words from other languages and adapts them - until recently that is. It seems a thoroughly modern convention that we have started incorporating foreign pronunciations into the English language.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the paella dust up. I thought Jimmy Smits took care of this nonsense in a funny Saturday Night Live skit in the late 80's or early 90's about the political correctness of Americans using a Spanish accent, in the course of a political conversation in English, to pronounce the names of countries in Central America. But it continues this many years later. It's very disconcerting to me to be in a regular conversation and then someone goes into a Spanish accent thing for a couple of words and then back to an English accent. I enjoy other languages and accents, but it can become absurdly pretentious.

I speak decent French and German but I avoid using the words from those languages that have come into the English lexicon for this reason. But no one is worried about offending the French or the Germans or, I doubt, the European Spanish. It's the political correctness of how to treat Latin America that these types are so concerned, and/or so pretentious about. I think that was the point of the Jimmy Smits skit on Saturday Night Live.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as the person or people you are speaking to, understand what you are saying, no correction, particularly on screen, of your pronunciation should be made! In fact, I find those Americans who pronounce certain words (such as Porsche as Porsch-a rather than Porsch), to sound pretentious. Maybe we should just call it Spanish rice.....

Oh yes, and as a pinko-commie-bleeding-heart-liberal, I really don't care how you pronounce "paella." I don't know many people who would care about that sort of thing, either.

As a writer, I have to say that I love all the great metaphors and similes you bust out to describe the food. They're always apt and usually hilarious, e.g. the armpit comparison. I have to agree with Viewer X. I think you spice up the judging a bit and I like that about you. But I also liked Simon Cowell the very few times I've watched American Idol, so many it's the "mean Brit" thing. ;)

Toby, after the first couple of shows of S5 when you dropped the shtick I have grown to love your commentary and judging and look forward to it. You are one of my very favorite judges. Your comments show a great deal of expertise.

That being said, I've been lucky enough to do a great deal of travelling around the world and I do my best to pronounce words the way the locals do. One, for me it is a matter of respect, and 2, while they may not mind your mispronounciation, they look very happy when you attempt to pronounce it their way. So if I say pi-a-ya instead of pi-el-a, I get a very friendly response from a waiter in Barcelona. They would still give me great service if I said it the other way but you can tell that they appreciate the effort.

I appreciate your insight, Toby. However, you should not judge all middle-class white people who do say "paella" with the Spanish pronunciation. I am a white American, who lives in Spain. So, everywhere I go, I hear it pronounced "pi-ay-a", so that is how I say it. I think if you learn to say it a certain way and you don't mean to be offensive, most people understand and don't take offense. But, if you are corrected by a national speaker, you should have enough humility to change it if you can.

Toby, I knew exactly what you meant in the paella "discussion" and I agree with you. It's all completely random, and the upper middle-class getting offended by it (and by a number of other subjects that are none of their business, like being against the use of genetically-enhanced grains in Africa to help those who are starving) just shows their contempt for others, though they don't seem to be bright enough to realize it. Maybe we should be offended on *their* behalf. ;)

Ashes,

Sorry to correct you...we (United States) do use the pronunciation for Madrid as MAD-rid....New Madrid, Missouri (or Ma-zur-rah).

I'm with Nola, your mispronunciation (of preferred anglo-phonetic pronunciation) was not offensive to me, but your suggestions of liberal elitism in this case are a little offensive and misplaced on this side of the pond. Rather than stemming from any sort of elitism or liberal-guilt protectionism toward the "less-privileged," we in the States simply pronouce "paella" and "jalepeno" in the Spanish fashion because this pronunciation overwhelmingly more common. A six-year-old American boy of any ethnic stock says paella or jalapeno correctly if he says it at all, and he's no elitist. You're forgiven for getting this one wrong because you grew up on the other side of the pond -- and you're forgiven for because you are many times hilarious and on point. Please just recognize that some things are just culture and not pretense.

I love languages and love foods, so this is a great post to read. I guess one's ear is similar to one's palate - each is tuned a little differently. Although I'm American, I started pronouncing the "H" in herbs after hearing the English do it. It makes so much more sense to to me to pronounce it that way! "erbs" just sounds strange to my ear. However, I love Spanish pronunciation and accents, so I will always say paella the Spanish way. Now, if we can just get the Brits to say "aluminum" correctly...